HIGHLIGHTS OF A
CONVERSATION WITH MICHAEL PALIN - ABOUT HIS INTEREST IN BIGGLES AND CAPTAIN W.
E. JOHNS
7TH JUNE 2011
MP - Hello
RH - Mr. Palin,
hello - thank you for giving up your time.
MP - Very nice
to meet you. I'm sorry time is always
short.
RH - I know you
are very busy.
MP - I have to
apportion all the things I've got to do - fire away, fire away.
RH - I
understand you are a big Biggles fan?
MP - Yes, I suppose a
lot of people growing up of my age (Michael
was born in 1943) of that time, mid 1950's, would have been Biggles
fans. It came slightly later than the
'Just William' books which I also read.
I can remember going to the libraries, Sheffield City Library - The
Children's Libraries downstairs, my father went upstairs and I went downstairs
- and looked for the latest Biggles books, or even ones that he had already
written that I hadn't read. I actually did some research for you, I've got my
old Letts schoolboy's diaries and at the back is a section on films you've seen
and what book's you've read and in 1955 I noted, it might have been the first
one I read, I'd have been 12 then - and that was "Biggles Defies the
Swastika".
RH - A brilliant
one. One of the best.
MP - There is a
note afterwards, because it has a little column "remarks" so I've
written "Biggles Defies the Swastika" - "Smashing"
MP - The next
one was "Biggles - Second Case"
RH - Another
good one
MP -
"Thrilling". As a schoolboy you
are completely undiscriminating - it's all wonderful. Then two years later, I was still reading
Biggles and "Biggles - Charter Pilot" - "jolly good, very
imaginative"
RH - Not very
good that one.
MP - (Laughs)
You're having a go at my choice!
MP - "Biggles
Delivers the Goods"
RH - Another
classic
MP -
"Really exciting. V. Bloody" -
and then Biggles Flies West
"V. authentically written" so I was using the word
"authentic" at the age of 12.
I hope you're impressed.
RH - Did you
collect them yourself or did you just borrow them from the library?
MP - I borrowed
most of them from the library, I couldn't really afford books. I might have got them in soft back and my
father might have got rid of them. But
I've got a number. I've got about two or
three in hardback and I've since bought a number. If I see them in a shop
I pick them up on occasions.
RH - Do you
collect first editions? Do you get first
editions in dust jackets?
MP - I get that
edition with the sort of green and yellow cover.
RH - Yeah, is
that the 'flying jacket' one?
MP - Yes.
RH - Yes, the
flying jacket ones, they're reprints.
RH - Have you
read any other Captain W. E. Johns? Did
you ever read Gimlet or Worrals?
MP - I read a
bit of Gimlet but wasn't quite so gripped by Gimlet. Worrals, of course,
that was about girls. I wasn't
interested in that. But no, it was the
Biggles books and Biggles stories and funnily enough, knowing I was going to
talk to you, I just got one down last night.
I always remember it as one of my favourites called "Biggles in the
Baltic".
RH - Yes. A great one
MP - It is pretty
good. I just read a bit again, and I
could see there was something about the size of the book and the way he wrote,
you could easy get through them, that was the thing. They weren't difficult
books to read - at all - and he got you into the story. And of course, I really love travelling and
even then, the lure of foreign countries, was great.
RH - Was that
one of the only ways for you to travel?
By reading the books?
MP - Well, exactly, I
certainly couldn't do it any other way, I was stuck in Sheffield really. The furthest I got was to Leeds or Nottingham
- on a good day, so yes, you could go to the Gobi or the Baltic or where ever
Biggles took you. So
the location was quite important for me.
RH - So how many
do you think you read? Out of 101
effectively?
MP - Well,
twenty I should think. I mean, the thing
was, I don't know how many there would be in print in 1957 say. How many would you say?
RH - About 55 to
60.
MP - About
55? Well, I think I probably would have
read, I'd certainly have read twenty.
Maybe more. I then went on
because I had certain sort of stages in my reading life that I remember, all
the school stories, Francis Durbridge, then 'Just
William'. Marvellous books, I loved
those, then Biggles. Then I went on more
to, Enid Blyton stuff after Biggles. I
was about 13 - 14. Then I went on more to
Sherlock Holmes. Then I got a thing
about ghost stories. By the time I was
16, I was reading Hemmingway. Biggles
had gone past. So I think probably, to be absolutely
correct I read 20, maybe 30.
RH - I'm
surprise you only read that number bearing in mind when you spoof them, you
spoof them so, so well. "Biggles
Goes to See Bruce Springstein" and things like
that. Did you write them by yourself or
did you write them with Terry Jones?
You can see
Michael reading "Biggles Goes
to See Bruce Springstein" here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BD-LDqtN1qA
MP - No, I
wrote most of them myself. I was the one
who seemed to have got the Biggles idiom and they were very affectionate
parodies. Very affectionate. But I always loved certain things that he
did, the stiff upper lip and the description of the technical part of an
engine. So it's all sort of "copper and spanworth 423 with a double decker triple thing" and
all that - I loved all that! And of course the idea of
these people all stuck in a plane, sort of together. There had kind of been a lot of hype about Springstein. And I
wanted to do something that was funny and showing my sort of appreciation for
the man and his music. And then I thought
of doing Biggles. Of
course I'd done Biggles for Python, I remember and we'd did 'Biggles
Combs His Hair'.
RH - (Produces original artwork of Biggles by
Leslie Stead that was spoofed for Monty Python framed with the relevant page of
the Monty Python book).
This is
something I wanted to give you.
MP - Wow. That's magnificent!
RH - The centre
painting is an original painting by Leslie Stead taken from an illustration
from 'Biggles Sweeps the Desert'. He repainted
it for a 1950's card game.
Do you know who
did the spoof picture? Did Terry Gilliam
draw that?
MP - No, it
wasn't Terry Gilliam, I don't know who did it.
RH - Whoever did
it has used this original image, haven't they?
I've got it all framed up and I would like to give that to you that if I
may.
MP - Oh, that's
fantastic! That's brilliant.
MP - People
tend to associate me with Biggles. Partly, I suppose because of the Python
things but I have been asked on two or three occasions to play Biggles in
films. I did an audio book sometime (Biggles
Flies North). So
there is a connection and an association. And of course, he was very English.
RH - Do you
think there is a future in perhaps a Biggles film? Or do you think the
characters - are in the past now?
MP - Was there
a film?
RH - There was a
film in 1986 which wasn't true to the books.
MP - I think
that is what I probably said no to. I
think you'd have to do it very, very carefully.
I mean, it's easy to see there being a film which would be a bit of a
send up but I think that would be missing the point. That would work for about four minutes but beyond
that, you've got to do a film of 90 minutes.
I'm not all together certain there should be a film, sometimes books are
books and they work very well. Do people
buy them still?
RH - Yes, they
are published by Random House - Red Fox.
There are probably about 25 in print at the moment.
MP -
Really? What's the most popular one?
RH - Probably 'Biggles
Flies East' - because it's the one that introduced Von Stalhein. Biggles is undercover pretending to be a
German spy and there's a lot of intrigue.
MP - Yes. There's a wonderful book called "Riddle
of the Sands" - by Erskine Childers - a very, very good book about getting
lost and with a strong sense of location which of course Johns has. And when I talk about him, and I still do
talk about Biggles, you know, then I always say, which is probably most unfair,
but I was rather disillusioned when I heard that Captain W. E. Johns was
sitting in you know, Teddington, not actually in the Baltic or in the Gobi.
RH - The early
Biggles books were serialised in 'The Modern Boy'. Have you ever heard of the 'The Modern Boy'?
MP - No.
RH - I've got
you one. (RH gives MP an original
copy of "The Modern Boy"). This
is from 1934 - it's a famous one with a Biggles cover. The Biggles stories were originally
serialised in parts as Johns sold them for serialisation rights. Of course in 1939
with the paper shortage caused by the Second World War, these magazine
folded. I understand that the big sales
of Biggles books didn't really take off until the 50's, in the 30's and 40's,
they weren't selling particularly well.
MP - Yes, I suppose the
30's, that's one thing, but the 40's, people weren't buying that many books,
just after the war, everything was geared to libraries, I know that. I had one book my father bought me - 'Arabian
Nights' - and that was for my 5th birthday in 1948. That was a big thing, big hardback book in my
hand with very good illustrations. But
Biggles, yes, they probably did buy me a Biggles book for Christmas. So I would have had two or three. And I think those are the ones I've got at
home.
RH - So you've
still got them after all these years?
You haven't parted with them?
MP - No, I'm
quite a hoarder. With regard to W. E.
Johns, I remember that photo of him, because he was quite a hero to me as he
was the writer, of course, and that was quite something. With his pipe. I think if you made a Biggles film now, you
would have to do it in a smarter way.
You'll probably have to do it about that period. Involving somebody who read Biggles. That was his escape from the world he has. Then it would work. Did W E Johns leave a lot of memoirs?
RH - He wrote a lot of articles for magazines such
as 'The Modern Boy' - Things like 'Christmas's I remember' and 'Shot down from
16,000 feet', so there are numerous articles written by him and there is an
excellent biography which gathered together all the information from these sort
of things. Extremely good.
MP - When was
that done?
RH - It was
initially published in 1981. It's been
revised and it's gone to three or four editions. Johns actually wrote some 169 books. People don't appreciate that it was not just
Biggles.
MP - How many
Gimlet and how many Worrals?
RH - Ten Gimlet
and Eleven Worrals.
MP - Was there
a single person on whom Biggles was based?
RH - There is a
lot of speculation about that. Because
Johns himself was a First World War pilot and he stayed in the RAF afterwards,
he knew loads of people associated with aviation. These included people with similar sounding
names, you know, Wigglesworth and Bigstone and there is collection of people
who Biggles may have been based on - if anything he was based on Johns himself.
MP - The same
with Algy and Ginger? Algy was 'The
Right Honourable' Algernon?
RH - Algernon
Lacey. Yes. Ginger was a character devised - because he's
writing for 13/14 year old boys, wasn't he? - and he
wanted somebody about that age, for them to identify with ....... just a kind
of writing device.
MP - Was it a
class thing? To have a slightly more protalitarian figure?
RH - (Laughs) He
was a northern lad, wasn't he, yes.
MP - I was reading
one of the books just the other day and they are about to refer to Ginger and
the man whose talking - some officer - stops himself saying "Ginger".
It's
remarkable, sort of thinking about them again.
RH - Well, with
one eye on the clock would you be kind enough to sign for me your diaries? (Michael signs and dedicates both hardback
volume of his diaries to RH)
PHOTOGRAPHS ARE
TAKEN AS RH PRESENTS THE ARTWORK TO MP
RH - Thank you
very much for your time.
MP - Thank you,
you have awaken my memories of happy days. Thank you, cheers, Roger! Bye-bye!
RH - Bye.
Transcribed
and edited by Roger Harris - with grateful thanks to Mr. Michael Palin
RETURN TO WWW.WEJOHNS.COM
OR WWW.BIGGLES.COM